200+ Proofs from the Bible
Jesus son of Mary pbuh was NOT crucified -Master article on Crucifiction read
here:
http://neurotherapy-of-christian-brain.blogspot.ae/2012/05/jesus-crucifiction-or-release-or.html
Was Christ Really Crucified?
(Courtesy : Dr. Zakir Naik)
(Courtesy : Dr. Zakir Naik)
Debate between
Dr. Zakir Naik and Pastor Henry Pio
Abridged version
Lecture & Rebuttal(Duration – 2 hour and 6 minutes)
Dr. Mohammad Naik:
Bismillahhir Rahmannir Rahim. In the name of God. Most gracious most merciful. Al Hamdullillahi Rabbillaalameen. Praise be to God the Lord of the Worlds. Respected Pastor Shahji Palikal on my right.Pastor Ruknuddin Henry Pio on my extreme right. Dr.Zakir Naik on my left. Distinguish guests, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of the Organizers; theIndia Gospel Mission and The Islamic Research Foundation; I welcome all of you to this unique event today. A discussion, a dialogue, a symposium, a debate, whatever you may prefer to call it on the topic: “Was Christ really crucified?” It is being held in the spirit of friendship towards understanding each others view points. I, Dr. Mohammad Naik; Am the coordinator for today’s program. Hence I will be Neutral. It is my honorous duty to ensure a fair and proper conduct of today’s meeting. Therefore I would request our speakers as well as the audience collected here today to maintain due decorum for a healthy debate. Before we got here today, I was asked by many people why this topic? Why these speakers only? The answer to which I could briefly summarize in the background to this debate. Pastor Rukni had come to the Islamic Research Foundation for a discussion with Dr. Zakir. It was mutually agreed between them that instead of a personal discussion between them, it would be more preferable and better to have an open public debate at a particular topic at a convenient hall such that the public too could hear and share in the debate; and be the final judge. Dr. Zakir suggested the topics: “Is the Bible God’s word?”, Or “Was Jesus God?” Pastor Rukni considered these topics too common and instead suggested the topic selected for today’s debate that is “Was Christ really crucified?” that’s how the topic for the debate and the two speakers are before all of us today.
As agreed too and decided; fair by the speakers, the format for the debate will be: Pastor Rukni would address you first for 45 minutes on the topic “Was Christ really crucified?” then Dr. Zakir will make his presentation on the same topic for 45 minutes. Then we would have a rebuttal session in which Pastor Rukni would comment and respond for 15 minutes to what Dr. Zakir has spoken. Followed by Dr. Zakir too speaking and responding for 15minutes to what Pastor Rukni has presented. When 5 minutes are left to conclude the talk as well as the rebuttal, I as a coordinator would hand each speaker a 5 minutes left slip an indication slip like this in which time both the speakers are kindly requested to conclude their talk or rebuttal. Last lywe would have the open question and answer session in which the audience may pose questions to each of the speakers alternately on the question mikes we have provided. Two here next to the stage and two in the ladies section. Only if time permits we would allow questions on slips which may be passed on to me and I would read out to the speakers. I would like to now briefly introduce the speaker Pastor Rukni before his talk and I would likewise introduce Dr.Zakir before his talk. Pastor Ruknuddin Henry Pio better known as Pastor Rukni is 43 years He is an Arab Christian Missionary. He was born a Christian in Basra, Iraq and later on brought up in Kuwait. He has post graduated with a master in Science from the University of Bombay. He has had varied experience in teaching, including computer education and training, teaching the Arabic language, consultancy for computerization and development of computer software programs in Arabic. He has been in the field of conveying the message of Christianity for over a decade. He is a bible teacher and preacher with the India Gospel Mission. He is also a renowned faith healer. May I call upon Pastor Rukni to make his presentation? Pastor Rukni...
Pastor Ruknuddin Henry Pio:
Just a small comment. Why is the Cross central in the Christian faith? What is the reason, the Cross is so important? First of all let me comment on the Cross itself. Physically the Cross. The bible doesn’t refer the Cross as something attractive, something pleasant to decoration. In fact there is a picture completely opposite in the bible. The portion of the bible in the old parts of the bible that is the books of the Jews. The first half of the bible we call it the Old Testament in the English language it refers to the Cross as something not nice. You will be surprised it refers to the Cross as something ugly. It says the Cross is a place of cursing. The Cross is a place where somebody who is to be punished badly and somebody who is cursed, somebody who is rejected by society. The Cross fits in. And there is a statement in the books of the Jews, the first half of the bible. That says; God’s words said by a prophet it says cursed is a man who hangs on a tree. It was reference to the tree, reference to a Cross. Essentially the bibles reveals to us that man is a sinner. Man is a sinner by nature. He inherited that from the days of Adam. “I was born and brought up and in my nature I am a sinner. And therefore I sin”. Sin by thought, sin by word, by behaviour, many, many things. It’s a nature of man a sinner. And the bible also says, that the person who sins he reaps death. A sentence of death. There is a spiritual death; there is a natural death, etc. So there is a sentence of death, on every human being on this earth because of sin. Because of sin is offensive to God and therefore man and God cannot finish it together cannot come together because of that enemy sin between them. And now what happen is, this sin is so gravies and so serious and so great that whatever I do to pay for the cost of the sin; to get rid of it; it is too small not good enough to wipe sin from my life. God sent Jesus, a perfect man, a man without sin, a man would prefer to suffer, rather that sin. An exception. A person who.. sin did not enter him. He was tempted in every way but yet he did not sin. Therefore the sentence of death does not belong to him. As it belong to all of us. He deserves to live forever. From the point of view as man, he walked as man on earth. Like anybody else, like he had to work for his bread and many different things like anybody else. But from the spiritual point of view, he was not worthy of death because sin did not succeed going into him. Ok. So in that sense he was a perfect man. Now this Jesus obeyed God, to the point of being wrongly sentenced to the death of a sinner. Ok. So therefore satisfying the justice of God, that death is the price for sin. A perfect man, who don’t deserve to be dead don’t deserve to taste for death and he was willing to die on behalf of others paying the price of sin. Therefore the cost he is paying is worthy to wipe away sins. Therefore, the sacrifice he offered was acceptable to God as a cost for sin. That’s why you remove the Cross from Christian life; you have removed the whole Christian faith. Now the dispute here is; many people not just Muslims, some other people also; they say Jesus did not die on the Cross. That was…that was I am not…of course Dr. Zakir, will know better than me in details, but my part; I say Jesus did die on the Cross.
And I am going to in the time available, as now I just gave you an idea why the Cross is important, and central in our life? Because that death was the key for my sins to be removed from my life. It’s a free gift from God. God paid his the price himself. God himself paid the price. Therefore what he pays is good and worthy enough to remove sin. Not like a sacrifice I would do. It is a polluted sacrifice because a sinner offering… a sinner offering a sacrifice, a polluted sacrifice. But Jesus, a perfect man offering himself, though as if he was a sinner.
Now, you know the first five books of the bible are written by the Prophet Moses, and the first book is genesis that describe the history of God created the earth and first development of the human beings in the old times in the Babylon, etc. How Adam and Eve was created? And he had fellowship with God. There was no barrier between Adam and Eve and God therefore God and Adam and Eve see each other. They talked each other. There is fellowship; there is no ones between Adam, Eve and God-the creator. Why? Because there was no sin between them Ok.. at that time before sinning. Now later, when the devil who came in the deceiving form of a servant and he succeeded causing them to sin. Never mind what he sinned and all basically it’s written in the scripture some fruit they were forbidden to eat and then they ate it, that fruit is not important, what is important is..is that they did disobey God, they did disobey God. And something God warned them that they are not allowed to do. So when they did that then sin came to earth and then Adam and eve was separated from God. From that day onwards the rift between God and man started. Many people say I wish I could see God, I wish if God made, I mean, why I can’t see him? Why I do sin? Many people wrongly give wrong, bad attribute on God. Because they see evil around them. Actually evil is man has made it, not God. What happened, God is righteous in his judgment.
And I am going to in the time available, as now I just gave you an idea why the Cross is important, and central in our life? Because that death was the key for my sins to be removed from my life. It’s a free gift from God. God paid his the price himself. God himself paid the price. Therefore what he pays is good and worthy enough to remove sin. Not like a sacrifice I would do. It is a polluted sacrifice because a sinner offering… a sinner offering a sacrifice, a polluted sacrifice. But Jesus, a perfect man offering himself, though as if he was a sinner.
Now, you know the first five books of the bible are written by the Prophet Moses, and the first book is genesis that describe the history of God created the earth and first development of the human beings in the old times in the Babylon, etc. How Adam and Eve was created? And he had fellowship with God. There was no barrier between Adam and Eve and God therefore God and Adam and Eve see each other. They talked each other. There is fellowship; there is no ones between Adam, Eve and God-the creator. Why? Because there was no sin between them Ok.. at that time before sinning. Now later, when the devil who came in the deceiving form of a servant and he succeeded causing them to sin. Never mind what he sinned and all basically it’s written in the scripture some fruit they were forbidden to eat and then they ate it, that fruit is not important, what is important is..is that they did disobey God, they did disobey God. And something God warned them that they are not allowed to do. So when they did that then sin came to earth and then Adam and eve was separated from God. From that day onwards the rift between God and man started. Many people say I wish I could see God, I wish if God made, I mean, why I can’t see him? Why I do sin? Many people wrongly give wrong, bad attribute on God. Because they see evil around them. Actually evil is man has made it, not God. What happened, God is righteous in his judgment.
When Adam and Eve sinned against God and then God was so angry with the serpent, so angry with eve, so angry with Adam each one accordingly received some major of curse in his life.
Now the serpent received a curse that the serpent will be all the day of her life will crawl on the dust.
And in the case of Eve God told that because you tempted your husband to eat what is forbidden from now on your husband rules over you and you will be in submission to him, you will be dependent on him and also greatly her birth giving pregnancy there is great pain increase on her.
In case of Adam, his main problem was that from now on when he works in the ground, the ground doesn’t give him fruit easily. He will have to sweat and work very hard till food comes and then their life was limited because death entered their life.
From that point onwards they are not meant to live forever they remain to, But one thing is very important is related is about the Cross the indirect reference to the Cross. It says God after declaring the various curses on Adam and Eve in; Genesis Chapter 3 says “therefore the lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden that is in reference to Adam and of course and his family, of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken and he drove the man and he placed Cherubim and so he drove out the man and he placed Cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden and a flaming sword which turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.” Genesis Chapter 3 Verse No.23-24. Simply is after God declared various things on them and sentence of death basically on them God chased them out of Garden of Eden. That beautiful garden which we normally refer to it as heaven actually some beautiful place where they use to enjoy the place. God drove them out from that garden and what did he placed at the entry point of the garden. He placed an angelic being is called…angels have different types of categories one of these is called the Cherubim the closest to God. So angelic being standing at the starting point of the garden with the flaming sword and the sword is going right left in all directions to make sure nobody enters that garden again…see.. What is the way to the Garden of Eden? The way to Garden of Eden is only if you pass through that sword. There is a sword at the Garden of Eden which is watching over the entry to the Garden of Eden. Because God is righteous and his justice demands that, that sword had to fall on somebody. That sword is the death sentence on the one who dares enter the garden. And we see later Jesus willingly gave his life according to the will of the father and that sword fell on him. And therefore today the door to Garden of Eden, the door to Garden of Eden is open. Not only to Christians to all those who believe. Jesus allowed that sword to fall on him. So that is indirect reference to the Cross.
See summary of that very big drama is this, Abraham went up and then he told “God will provide for himself a lamb”. God is demanding a sacrifice. See I am putting my own words in between I am just paraphrasing. God demanding a sacrifice, there is a need for a sacrifice. God wants a sacrifice but where is the lamp for sacrifice? God will provide for himself, the lamp. God spared Isaac. God was not even thinking of killing Isaac. The bible summary says. He was just testing Abraham. God is not in the business of killing the children like that. God, He gave him Isaac as a gift. He wouldn’t just take him like that for him. Ok. And then God through miraculous act, He stopped him in the last minute through the angel of God in a very critical point in his life. You see. And it is right that I should die and go to hell. Ok..But what happened? God provided a sacrifice for himself. Christ Jesus is a sacrifice on the Cross. You look at Jesus you believe in him you receive him in your heart therefore God’s justice is satisfied. That sacrifice, instead of me. Any mandies for me is not good enough. But Christ dies for me is special. There are so many people who die for each other. There are, some time husband die for wife because he loves his wife that is a very noble act that’s a beautiful act. Ok… But I am talking about saving from sin. Not saving from small things, saving from eternal judgment from hell, from the fire of hell. Any sacrifice will not do, will not do. The New Testament the Christian part of the bible says, God he is talking to believers of course Christians and he said “God delivered us not through the blood sacrifice of blood of goats and cows, and animals and all that; In the eyes of God there is a list of sins; that needs to be punished; in me. But Jesus said put it on me, put it on me….I…I...That is put on Jesus. You see, and therefore but if somebody else die for me nothing happens, I will not be saved from sin. But only particular person, a perfect person is having that…that privilege to die for others, you wash away their sins. The Old Testament, God gave symbolism of the Cross. And you know the story of the Jews being saved from Egypt, very famous story in the history of the Jewish nation. They were slaves in Egypt for several hundred years and then God visited them and he save them through miraculous act and he gave them this symbol “tonight I am going to kill all your enemies the children of the enemies at that time and to force them to leave you. And he made them slay a perfect lamb, a lamb without blemish, not sick, not blind, not limping, a perfect lamb. And God told them you put the blood of the lamb on the doors of your house. And in the night, the angel of death will come. Any door that didn’t have that blood, their first born will be dead. But this is what happened to Jews in that time they obeyed and they put the blood on the gate and the whole nation, Jewish nation that night were give permission to leave Egypt. So that was a reference through a perfect lamb, a sacrifice of a perfect lamb not any lamb. I won’t just bring any lamb a perfect lamb. There is a salvation from death. That is a symbolism. Really it was not the lamb; it was a symbol of Christ coming later.
Now you go later, one time in the history of the Jews they rebelled against God. They did it many times. Ten major times they did it, in the Sinai. And then the serpents came and just bit them one by one and many were poisoning through serpents. It is mentioned fiery serpents. And then God told Moses to do something very strange, very strange. He told him to make a serpent made of bronze, Brass. And put it on a high stick. And everybody from the Jewish nation looks at that serpent. He will be healed from the poisoning of the serpent. Now it is mentioned in the New Testament; comments on that; it says see the snake is the serpent, is the symbol of devil. Snake is not the devil. Snake is just the symbol of devil. Snake is just an animal.
Now what happened is, Jesus was hung on the Cross became a serpent for us. He who was perfect, more perfect than Angels but he was willing to be like the serpent sin on the Cross. He gave them symbolism to remind them of forgiveness of sin. He said you bring a lamb that is without blemish. There is no spot on him. He is not blind; He is not limping of certain age only that I accept as your religious ritual sacrifice. All his godly part, and authority, qualities he kept aside. He walked as a plain man subject to pain and sin. I am sorry, temptation of sin. The Cross is foolishness from the point of view naturally why your God goes and die on Cross. It sounds foolish. It is sounding foolish. Actually it is God’s wisdom. It was God’s wisdom is different. God had to satisfy his justice. God had to, a blameless person to die for the sins of the world. New Testament is based fully on the Cross. You take out the Cross; the whole bible is not worth two paisa. Talking bible, I mean books of the Jews I mean the book of the Christians. Isaiah Chapter 53, lastly I got couple of minutes. John the Apostle there are two John’s there, one is John the Apostle he saw visions of heaven. he saw in heaven the lamb that was slain. Jesus referred to as the lamb that was slain. Of course Jesus is not lamb physically, he is not a lamb, he is not a sheep. He is a man. But symbolically he was that perfect Lamb of God. If you takeout the Cross from the Christian faith, there is no Christian faith. Some list of Do’s and Don’ts. That’s all. There is no salvation, there is no breaking with sin there is nothing. I think my time is up.
Now the serpent received a curse that the serpent will be all the day of her life will crawl on the dust.
And in the case of Eve God told that because you tempted your husband to eat what is forbidden from now on your husband rules over you and you will be in submission to him, you will be dependent on him and also greatly her birth giving pregnancy there is great pain increase on her.
In case of Adam, his main problem was that from now on when he works in the ground, the ground doesn’t give him fruit easily. He will have to sweat and work very hard till food comes and then their life was limited because death entered their life.
From that point onwards they are not meant to live forever they remain to, But one thing is very important is related is about the Cross the indirect reference to the Cross. It says God after declaring the various curses on Adam and Eve in; Genesis Chapter 3 says “therefore the lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden that is in reference to Adam and of course and his family, of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken and he drove the man and he placed Cherubim and so he drove out the man and he placed Cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden and a flaming sword which turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.” Genesis Chapter 3 Verse No.23-24. Simply is after God declared various things on them and sentence of death basically on them God chased them out of Garden of Eden. That beautiful garden which we normally refer to it as heaven actually some beautiful place where they use to enjoy the place. God drove them out from that garden and what did he placed at the entry point of the garden. He placed an angelic being is called…angels have different types of categories one of these is called the Cherubim the closest to God. So angelic being standing at the starting point of the garden with the flaming sword and the sword is going right left in all directions to make sure nobody enters that garden again…see.. What is the way to the Garden of Eden? The way to Garden of Eden is only if you pass through that sword. There is a sword at the Garden of Eden which is watching over the entry to the Garden of Eden. Because God is righteous and his justice demands that, that sword had to fall on somebody. That sword is the death sentence on the one who dares enter the garden. And we see later Jesus willingly gave his life according to the will of the father and that sword fell on him. And therefore today the door to Garden of Eden, the door to Garden of Eden is open. Not only to Christians to all those who believe. Jesus allowed that sword to fall on him. So that is indirect reference to the Cross.
See summary of that very big drama is this, Abraham went up and then he told “God will provide for himself a lamb”. God is demanding a sacrifice. See I am putting my own words in between I am just paraphrasing. God demanding a sacrifice, there is a need for a sacrifice. God wants a sacrifice but where is the lamp for sacrifice? God will provide for himself, the lamp. God spared Isaac. God was not even thinking of killing Isaac. The bible summary says. He was just testing Abraham. God is not in the business of killing the children like that. God, He gave him Isaac as a gift. He wouldn’t just take him like that for him. Ok. And then God through miraculous act, He stopped him in the last minute through the angel of God in a very critical point in his life. You see. And it is right that I should die and go to hell. Ok..But what happened? God provided a sacrifice for himself. Christ Jesus is a sacrifice on the Cross. You look at Jesus you believe in him you receive him in your heart therefore God’s justice is satisfied. That sacrifice, instead of me. Any mandies for me is not good enough. But Christ dies for me is special. There are so many people who die for each other. There are, some time husband die for wife because he loves his wife that is a very noble act that’s a beautiful act. Ok… But I am talking about saving from sin. Not saving from small things, saving from eternal judgment from hell, from the fire of hell. Any sacrifice will not do, will not do. The New Testament the Christian part of the bible says, God he is talking to believers of course Christians and he said “God delivered us not through the blood sacrifice of blood of goats and cows, and animals and all that; In the eyes of God there is a list of sins; that needs to be punished; in me. But Jesus said put it on me, put it on me….I…I...That is put on Jesus. You see, and therefore but if somebody else die for me nothing happens, I will not be saved from sin. But only particular person, a perfect person is having that…that privilege to die for others, you wash away their sins. The Old Testament, God gave symbolism of the Cross. And you know the story of the Jews being saved from Egypt, very famous story in the history of the Jewish nation. They were slaves in Egypt for several hundred years and then God visited them and he save them through miraculous act and he gave them this symbol “tonight I am going to kill all your enemies the children of the enemies at that time and to force them to leave you. And he made them slay a perfect lamb, a lamb without blemish, not sick, not blind, not limping, a perfect lamb. And God told them you put the blood of the lamb on the doors of your house. And in the night, the angel of death will come. Any door that didn’t have that blood, their first born will be dead. But this is what happened to Jews in that time they obeyed and they put the blood on the gate and the whole nation, Jewish nation that night were give permission to leave Egypt. So that was a reference through a perfect lamb, a sacrifice of a perfect lamb not any lamb. I won’t just bring any lamb a perfect lamb. There is a salvation from death. That is a symbolism. Really it was not the lamb; it was a symbol of Christ coming later.
Now you go later, one time in the history of the Jews they rebelled against God. They did it many times. Ten major times they did it, in the Sinai. And then the serpents came and just bit them one by one and many were poisoning through serpents. It is mentioned fiery serpents. And then God told Moses to do something very strange, very strange. He told him to make a serpent made of bronze, Brass. And put it on a high stick. And everybody from the Jewish nation looks at that serpent. He will be healed from the poisoning of the serpent. Now it is mentioned in the New Testament; comments on that; it says see the snake is the serpent, is the symbol of devil. Snake is not the devil. Snake is just the symbol of devil. Snake is just an animal.
Now what happened is, Jesus was hung on the Cross became a serpent for us. He who was perfect, more perfect than Angels but he was willing to be like the serpent sin on the Cross. He gave them symbolism to remind them of forgiveness of sin. He said you bring a lamb that is without blemish. There is no spot on him. He is not blind; He is not limping of certain age only that I accept as your religious ritual sacrifice. All his godly part, and authority, qualities he kept aside. He walked as a plain man subject to pain and sin. I am sorry, temptation of sin. The Cross is foolishness from the point of view naturally why your God goes and die on Cross. It sounds foolish. It is sounding foolish. Actually it is God’s wisdom. It was God’s wisdom is different. God had to satisfy his justice. God had to, a blameless person to die for the sins of the world. New Testament is based fully on the Cross. You take out the Cross; the whole bible is not worth two paisa. Talking bible, I mean books of the Jews I mean the book of the Christians. Isaiah Chapter 53, lastly I got couple of minutes. John the Apostle there are two John’s there, one is John the Apostle he saw visions of heaven. he saw in heaven the lamb that was slain. Jesus referred to as the lamb that was slain. Of course Jesus is not lamb physically, he is not a lamb, he is not a sheep. He is a man. But symbolically he was that perfect Lamb of God. If you takeout the Cross from the Christian faith, there is no Christian faith. Some list of Do’s and Don’ts. That’s all. There is no salvation, there is no breaking with sin there is nothing. I think my time is up.
Five minutes not bad haan. No problem. Right. Now there is; one evidence; of one category of evidence of the Cross of Jesus is the bible. Talmud. Some of you may have heard of it. If you refer to the version of the Talmud; around the time of Jesus 2000 years ago; you will read that Jesus was put to death. Of course, they will say wrong things also; they say he was false Christ. He gave the wrong message. He was a magician. They say wrong things. But one things they said, they say “Jesus was put to death” because he did wrong things {{ TALMUD Baraitha Bab. Sanhedrin 43a The translation is informed by both Goldstein:22,109ff and Mead:178f,210f.
There is a tradition (in a Barraitha): They hanged Yeshu on the Sabbath of the Passover[1]. But for forty days before that a herald went in front of him (crying), "Yeshu is to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and seduced Israel and lead them away from God[2]. Anyone who can provide evidence on his behalf should come forward to defend him." When, however, nothing favorable about him was found, he was hanged on the Sabbath of the Passover[1]. Halakhic procedure of Jesus’ trial and execution: Jesus was not crucified but, according to Jewish law, stoned to death and then, as the ultimate postmortem punishment reserved for the worst criminals, hanged on a tree.
This is one of the (few early) passages that Goldstein judges to be a possibly authentic reference to Jesus. He identifies two difficulties: the details do not fit well with the gospel accounts, and Yeshu / Yeshua / Yeshoshua (all forms of the same name) was an extremely common name. … Differences in detail probably simply reflect a tradition widely divergent from the Christian gospels. There is, as with many of these stories, the strong possibility that stories about other Yeshu/as or accused magicians have mingled with authentic Jesus traditions to create a new story. The story is hard to date with any confidence, but it cannot be later than about 220, CE (Goldstein:29). The italicized section is Amoraic, 4th c. at the earliest. [AH]}}}. I got only two, maybe half a minute more. I cannot argue with you. But the people today, rouse people. Today I don’t have time or I would have prayed for all of you. There is no time. As Brother….haa….Thank you.Dr. Mohammad Naik:
Thank you Pastor Rukni for your presentation. Now we have the second speaker for the day Dr.Zakir.
Dr. Mohammed:
Dr. Zakir Abdul Karim Naik, 33 years, is the President of the Islamic Research Foundation, Bombay. A medical doctor by professional training, he has turned around to make the proper clarification as well as
removing misconceptions about Islam, his main mission in life. He’s a keen student of Islam and comparative religion. In the last 3 years itself; Dr.Zakir has delivered more than 300 public talks’s abroad in addition to his many talks in India. He has also participated in many symposia and debates with prominent personalities of other faith. May I call upon Dr. Zakir to make his presentation on the topic of the day: Was Christ Really Crucified? Dr.Zakir….
Dr. Zakir Naik:
Alhamdulillah Was Salaatu Was Salaam Ala Rasoolillah Wa Ala Alihi WaAshabihi Ajma’in, amma baad. A’uzu Billahi minash shaytan nir-rajeem,Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem.
“Wa Qawlihim Inna Qatalnal Masiha Isabna Maryama Rasool Allah. Wa MaQataluhu Wa Ma Salabuhu Wa Lakin Shubbi ha Lahum. Wa InnalLazinakhtalafu Fihi Lafi Shakkim Minh. Ma Lahu bihi Min Ilm Illati BaazzanWa Makatuluhu Yaqina.”
Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem. Rabbish rahli Şadri Wa Yassir Li 'Amri Wa Ahlul `Uqdatan Min Lisani YafqahuQawli
Respected Pastor Ruknuddin, or as he likes to be called Pastor Rukni Henry Pio, Pastor Shah ji, the respected Pastors from various churches of Bombay, my respected elders and my dear brothers and sisters. I welcome all of you with the Islamic greetings - Assalaamu Alaikum, Wa- Rahmatullahi, WaBarkatahu - May peace, mercy and blessings of Allah (swt), of Almighty God be on all of you. Before I dwell into the topic, I would like to clarify the position of Jesus(Peace Be Upon Him) in Islam. Islam is the only non Christian faith which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him). No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him). We believe that he was one of the mightiest messengers of Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta’ala)of Almighty God. We believe that he was the Messiah, translated Christ. We believe that he was born miraculously, without any male intervention, which many modern day Christians today do not believe. We believe that he gave life to the dead with Gods permission. We believe that he healed those bornblind and lepers, with God’s permission.
One may ask that if Muslims and Christians both love and respect Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him), then where is the parting of ways? The major difference is the Christians insistence on the supposed divinity of Jesus(Peace Be Upon Him). And they say that he was crucified on the cross and he died for the sins of humanity. The topic of today’s debate; if you have forgotten is: “Was Christ Really Crucified?” And since; we Muslims and Christians both believe in Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him), it’s obligatory that we put forth both point of view. The Muslim and the Christian point of view. As far as the Muslim point of view is concerned, we believe the most authentic and sacred book which is the word of God, is the Glorious Qur’an. And I started my talk by reciting a Verse from the Glorious Qur’an; from Surah Nisa Chapter 4 Verse No.157; which gives the verdict, the Islamic viewpoint, regarding the topic of today’s debate, Was Christ Really Crucified? And since Pastor Rukni, he’s an Arab Christian missionary, Arabic is his mother tongue. I do not have to translate the meaning of what I recited in the beginning of my talk. For him to realize, to understand what is the Islamic viewpoint. But since most of us don’t understand Arabic, Arabic is not our mother tongue. I would like to translate the Verse which I recited in the beginning of my talk, from Surah Nisa, Chapter No. 4 Verse No.157 which says
“ Wa Qawlihim” "They said, the Jews (in boast)”, “Inna Qatalnal Masiha Isabna Maryama Rasool Allah” “That we killed Christ, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”, “Wa MaQataluhu Wa Ma Salabuhu” “They did not kill him, Neither did they crucify him”, “Wa Lakin Shubbi ha Lahum” “but it was made to appear so”, “Wa Innal Lazinakhtalafu Fihi Lafi Shakkim Minh.” “And all those who differ therein are full of doubts”, “Ma Lahu bihi Min Ilm” “with a no certain knowledge”, “Illati Baa’zzan” “with only conjectures to follow”, “ Wa Ma Qataluhu Yaqinaa” “for a surety, they killed him not”.
This Verse of the Glorious Qur’an is so explicit, unambiguous, making it very clear, that the Islamic viewpoint is “Wa Ma Qataluhu Wa Ma Salabuhu” “they killed him not, neither did they crucify him”. “Wa Ma Qataluhu Yaqinaa” “for a surety they killed him not”.
No one can be more explicit, more unambiguous, more unequivocal than the Qur’an in this Verse saying that he was not killed. If I conclude my presentation right now, without commenting or refuting on the Biblical point of view, what the Pastor has presented; as far as the debate is concerned; it will be a draw, it will be neutral. That the Muslims say, according to the Qur’an, Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) was not really crucified. And the Christian according to their understanding of the Bible, they say he was crucified. It would be a draw. But I will not do that. I will prove from the Bible itself which the Christians believe to be the word of God, that Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) was not really crucified. Let me first clarify that we Muslims, we do not consider the Bible to be the word of God. The Bible may contain certain portions which we may consider it to be the word of God. It contains the word of the Prophets, the word of the historians. It also contains absurdity. Obscene statements, which if someone even pays me a thousand rupees now, I will not be able to read from the Bible. Such obscene Verses, obscene Chapters, It also contains contradictions. But even though I don’t believe that the Bible is the word of God, yet I will prove from the Bible that Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him)was not crucified because, Pastor Rukni and many Christians out here, they agree the Bible to be the word of God. So I’ll prove from their evidence. Because the Qur’an says in Sure Baqarah, Chapter No.2 Verse No.111 “Wa Qalu layyad Khulal Jannata illa man-Kana” They say; the Jews and Christian; “you Muslims, you shall never enter Jannah”.With all your piety, with all your righteousness; as Pastor said; with all the good deeds you shall not get salvation. That’s what the Pastor said in his talk. Its useless, with all your Zakat, with the Hajj, with the Salah, with the mark on your forehead, you shall never enter Jannah unless you be a Jew ora Christian. “Wa qalu lay yad khulal Jannah illa man-Kana Hudan aw Nasara” “Unless you are a Jew or a Christian”. Allah says “Tilka Amaaniyyuhum” “This is their wishful thinking”, “Bakwaas haibakwaas”, vain desires.
“Qul” “tell them” “Haatu Burhanakum” “Produce your proof” “In Kuntum Sadiqin” “But if you are truthful”. Allah says ask them to produce their proof. If I tell from the Qur’an that Jesus was not crucified, the Christians they don’t agree the Qur’an to be theword of God. So we have to ask them “Qul Haatu Burhanakum” “Produce your proof” “In Kuntum Sadiqin” “But if you are truthful”. And the Christians, they have produced their proof, the Bible as the Burhan. The Christian says, my Bible says this, my Bible says that, my Bible says this, my Bible says that. Let’s analyze what does their Bible says. And they have produced this Bible in no less than two thousand different languages of the world. So let’s analyze, from the Bible whether Christ was really crucified. And while doing so, whatever conclusion I draw from the Bible, need not necessarily be the Islamic viewpoint. Let me remind you that. The conclusion drawn from the Bible need not necessarily be the Islamic view point. The Islamic viewpoint I have made it very clear according to Sure Nisa, Chapter 4 Verse No.157
“Wa Ma Qataluhu Wa Ma Salabuhu” “They killed him not, neither did they crucify him.” It’s clear cut.
The topic: Was Christ Really Crucified? What is the meaning of the English word Crucify?
According to the Oxford Dictionary, crucify means, “To put to death by fastening onto the cross”.
According to the Webster’s Dictionary, crucify means, “To put to death by nailing or binding to the cross”.
In short for a person to be crucified he should die on the cross. If he does not die, he is not crucified.
What is the meaning of the word resurrection? Resurrection according to the:
Oxford Dictionary means, the act or instance of rising from the dead. And resurrection with capital ‘R’ means Christ rising from the dead.
According to the Webster’s Dictionary, resurrection means, “The act of rising from the dead and resurrection with capital ‘R’ means, rising again of Christ after his death and burial”.
In short, for Christ to be resurrected, he has to die. If he does not die, he is not resurrected. Let everyone get these definitions very clear in their mind.
According to the Oxford Dictionary, crucify means, “To put to death by fastening onto the cross”.
According to the Webster’s Dictionary, crucify means, “To put to death by nailing or binding to the cross”.
In short for a person to be crucified he should die on the cross. If he does not die, he is not crucified.
What is the meaning of the word resurrection? Resurrection according to the:
Oxford Dictionary means, the act or instance of rising from the dead. And resurrection with capital ‘R’ means Christ rising from the dead.
According to the Webster’s Dictionary, resurrection means, “The act of rising from the dead and resurrection with capital ‘R’ means, rising again of Christ after his death and burial”.
In short, for Christ to be resurrected, he has to die. If he does not die, he is not resurrected. Let everyone get these definitions very clear in their mind.
According to Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him), he says in the Gospel of Mathew, Chapter No.19, Verse No.16 and 17. That “A person can obtain salvation by keeping the law and the commandments.” But according to St. Paul, he nails the laws and commandments to the cross, cross, cross, cross, as you heard Pastor Saying cross, cross. He nails the law and commandment to the cross as he says in
Colossians, Chapter No. 2 Verse No.14. “And Paul says that salvation can be obtained by believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him)” And he quotes, if you read the
New Testament 1st Corinthians Chapter No.15 Verse No.14I give the reference so that you people realize I’m not pulling a fast one. I prefer giving references. Otherwise if I say Bible says this, New Testament says this, in this encyclopaedia of more than a thousand pages, where will you find? To make it easy I give references According to St. Paul 1st Corinthians Chapter No. 15 Verse No.14 “And if Christ has not risen from the dead our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain”. As the Pastor said, that all your good deeds, all your charity, without believing in Christ died for the sin, it is useless. And the Christian missionaries, the reference they didn’t give. Quoting from Isaiah Chapter No.64, Verse No. 6, “That all our righteousness, all our good deeds are like filthy rags”. If you don’t believe Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) died on the cross for the sin of humanity, all your righteousness, all your good deeds are like filthy rags. And in the words of the Pastor, which I wouldn’t ever say. He says if there’s no cross, if there’s no crucifixion, Bible is less than two paisa. And he says, “If no crucifixion, there’s no Christianity”. And I agree with him, and I agree with him.
And the Pastor said that he came to India and he spent more than two decades here. And only when he came to India, he really realized the message of Christianity. Previously he was only a Christian, but he became a practicing Christian from the Muslims here. I would like to remind him, that I have only met one Arab Christian before in my life, before meeting Pastor. One Arab Christian I met in Jeddah, from Syria. And after he attended my talk, Al Hamdulillah, by Allah’s grace, he accepted Islam. This is the second time in my life that personally I’m meeting an Arab Christian. And InshaAllah, with Allah’s help and I pray to Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta’ala) to give him Hidaaya, that since he got the teaching of Christianity from the Indians, he will come back to the original faith which is Islam. Which every human being is born in. Insha Allah, after this talk, or after having discussion, InshaAllah, I pray that he comes back to the original faith, InshaAllah, realizing, that if no crucifixion, no cross, no Christianity which InshaAllah I will do in the course of my time. Let’s see what St. Paul has to say regarding resurrection.
St. Paul, he comments on resurrected bodies, in the same Chapter where he says if Christ hasn’t risen, our faith is in vain, and our preaching is in vain, same Chapter 1st Corinthians, Chapter 15. towards the end of the Chapter St. Paul says in 1stCorinthians, Chapter 15, Verse No.42 to 44, he says, that “So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in in corruption. It is sown in dishonor it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body it is raised a spiritual body”, “There’s a natural body and there’s a spiritual body”.
St. Paul, he comments on resurrected bodies, in the same Chapter where he says if Christ hasn’t risen, our faith is in vain, and our preaching is in vain, same Chapter 1st Corinthians, Chapter 15. towards the end of the Chapter St. Paul says in 1stCorinthians, Chapter 15, Verse No.42 to 44, he says, that “So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in in corruption. It is sown in dishonor it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body it is raised a spiritual body”, “There’s a natural body and there’s a spiritual body”.
According to St. Paul the resurrected bodies are spiritualized. They are spiritualized. Same is said by his lord and master, Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) in the
Gospel of Luke Chapter No.20, Verse No.27 to 36, if you remember the story of a woman who had seven husbands, and the Jews come with a poser to Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) and it’s a Jewish practice, that if a man marries a woman and if he dies, without leaving any children, the second brother marries the wife of the deceased brother, so that he can give her his seed. If the second brother dies without leaving any children, the third brother marries. So on and so forth. So here they come with a poser that this woman married seven brothers one after the other and all of them had her here. Means they had her as a wife here one after the other. But there was no problem, why? Since each one of them had turn by turn. So there was no problem. And later on even she dies. But they pose the question to Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) that in resurrection, who will have her there? Indicating during resurrection all the seven brothers will be raised simultaneously along with the woman. Who will have her there? So Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) says in the Gospel of Luke Chapter No.20,Verse35 and 36, “That resurrected bodies they do not marry, neither do they give in marriage”. Verse No.36 says, that“ Neither shall they die anymore. They are equal unto the Angels”, that means they shall be Angelised, resurrected body will be spiritualized. Who says that? Jesus says that, Gospel of Luke Chapter No.20, Verse No.36.Paul says that, 1st Corinthians, Chapter15, Verse No. 42 to 44. Its very clear cut.
Gospel of Luke Chapter No.20, Verse No.27 to 36, if you remember the story of a woman who had seven husbands, and the Jews come with a poser to Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) and it’s a Jewish practice, that if a man marries a woman and if he dies, without leaving any children, the second brother marries the wife of the deceased brother, so that he can give her his seed. If the second brother dies without leaving any children, the third brother marries. So on and so forth. So here they come with a poser that this woman married seven brothers one after the other and all of them had her here. Means they had her as a wife here one after the other. But there was no problem, why? Since each one of them had turn by turn. So there was no problem. And later on even she dies. But they pose the question to Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) that in resurrection, who will have her there? Indicating during resurrection all the seven brothers will be raised simultaneously along with the woman. Who will have her there? So Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) says in the Gospel of Luke Chapter No.20,Verse35 and 36, “That resurrected bodies they do not marry, neither do they give in marriage”. Verse No.36 says, that“ Neither shall they die anymore. They are equal unto the Angels”, that means they shall be Angelised, resurrected body will be spiritualized. Who says that? Jesus says that, Gospel of Luke Chapter No.20, Verse No.36.Paul says that, 1st Corinthians, Chapter15, Verse No. 42 to 44. Its very clear cut.
And there’s not a single Verse anywhere in the Gospel which says that Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) was resurrected.
In fact if you read, its mentioned, if you remember the story, that after the alleged crucifixion when the disciples, they meet in the upper room, Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) he comes, its mentioned in Gospel of Luke Chapter No.24, Verse No.36, he comes and he says to the disciple, “Shalom” in Hebrew which means peace unto you. Next Verse Gospel of Luke Chapter 24, Verse 37, says, “But they were terrified and affrighted and supposed him to be a spirit”. I’m asking a question, why did the disciples think Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) to be a spirit? Did Jesus look like a spirit? And when I ask this question to the Christians, all of them said, no. And they are right. Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) did not look like a spirit, when he comes to the upper room after the alleged crucifixion. So why did they think that he was a spirit? The reason is because they had heard from the hearsay that their master Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) was put on the cross. They had learnt from hearsay that he had given up the ghost that he had died. They had learnt from hearsay that he was dead and buried in the grave for three days. Hearsay, hearsay. You know why? Because they were not eye witnesses.
According to Mark, Gospel of Mark Chapter No.14 Verse No.50 it says, that “All of them forsook him and fled” In the most crucial juncture in the life of Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) when he required them the most. All the disciples, 100%. All of them according to Mark, Chapter14 Verse No.50, they forsook him and fled. Who says that? Not Dr. Zakir Naik, Gospel of Mark Chapter 14 Verse No.50.All of them forsook. So it was from hearsay. Therefore they think and they thought that he was a spirit. But Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) to clarify their doubt, it’s mentioned in the next two Verses in the Gospel of Luke Chapter No.24 Verse No.39 and 40 Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) says, that “Behold my hands and feet, it is I myself. Handle me and see for a spirit has no flesh and bone”, As you see me have. And saying so he shows them his hands and feet. He tells them behold my hands and feet, it is I myself, what has happened to you? It is me, your lord and master Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him), why you’re frightened? Handle me and see, behold my hands and feet for a spirit has no flesh and bones. What was he trying to prove by showing his hands and feet? Was he trying to prove that he was resurrected, was he trying to prove he was spirit. He was trying to prove that he was not a spirit. He was not resurrected.
Next two Verse, Gospel of Luke, Chapter No.24, Verse No.41 to 42, it says, that” They were overjoyed and they wondered.” They thought he is dead and now they are happy that their lord and master is alive, physical with flesh and bones in front of them. They are happy. Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) yet to confirm them says that, “Do you have any meat here?” And they gave him a piece of broiled fish and a honeycomb. And he took it and he ate before them. To prove what? That he was resurrected? To prove that he was a spirit? To prove that he was a physical body. He ate and he chewed in front of them. A piece of broiled fish and honeycomb, to prove that he was not resurrected, he was not a spirit.
Next two Verse, Gospel of Luke, Chapter No.24, Verse No.41 to 42, it says, that” They were overjoyed and they wondered.” They thought he is dead and now they are happy that their lord and master is alive, physical with flesh and bones in front of them. They are happy. Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) yet to confirm them says that, “Do you have any meat here?” And they gave him a piece of broiled fish and a honeycomb. And he took it and he ate before them. To prove what? That he was resurrected? To prove that he was a spirit? To prove that he was a physical body. He ate and he chewed in front of them. A piece of broiled fish and honeycomb, to prove that he was not resurrected, he was not a spirit.
But he was in flesh and bones, a physical body if no resurrection, no crucifixion, no Christianity. If you remember thestory of Mary Magdalene, when she goes to the tomb of Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) on the third day. It’s mentioned in the Gospel of John, Chapter No.20, Verse No. 1 as well as Gospel of Mark, Chapterno16, Verse No.2, that it was the first day of the week, meaning it was a Sunday, Sabbath day is Saturday for the Jews. So first day of the week is Sunday. “It was the first day of the week that Mary Magdalene goes to the tomb.” Now why should Mary Magdalene go to the tomb on third day after Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) supposedly was dead? Why should she go? The reply is given in the Verse earlier, in Gospel of Mark, Chapter No.16 Verse No.1 that “Mary Magdalene goes to massage Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him), to anoint him.” The word is anoint, which the original Hebrew word is ‘Masahaa’, means to massage, to rub, to anoint. And from this root word you can even derive the Arabic word ‘Masih’, or the Hebrew word ‘Messiah’ which means the anointed one, which if you translate to Greek it means ‘Christos’, from which you get the word Christ, the anointed one. I am asking the question, do Jews massage dead bodies on the third day? Have you any time heard? Jews massaging dead bodies on third day? And the answer is No. I am asking the Christians, do Christians massage dead bodies on third day? And the answer is no…Do Muslims, do we massage dead bodies on third day? And the answer is No. So why is she going to the tomb to massage Jesus who has died on the third day, according to the Christians. You know why? Because she was the only one besides Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus who gave the burial bath to Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him). And when Jesus’s body was brought down (Peace Be Upon Him) from the cross, she might have seen some life in the limp body. But natural, she’s not going to say, “he’s alive”. Otherwise they will put him to death again. Seeing certain life in the limp body of Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) she comes back on the third day after the Sabbath day to look for “Alive” Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him). Alive Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him).
And it’s mentioned in the Gospel of John, Chapter No.20, Verse No.1, and the Gospel of Mark Chapter No.16, Verse No.4, that “She finds that the stone has been removed, and even the winding sheets they are unwound and placed in a pile.” The question is why should the stone be removed and why should the winding sheets be unwound and placed at the side, piled up at the side? If Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) was resurrected as a spiritual body, does a spirit require the stone of the entry of the tomb to be removed? If it’s a spirit, doors cannot stop a spirit from entering. The stone need not be removed. Why was the stone removed? And if a spirit has to move does it have to un-wound the winding sheets? It’s not required. But if it’s a physical body the stone blocking the entry of the tomb has to be removed. The winding sheet shave to be unwound, proving that Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) the person who came out of the tomb was a physical body. And the tomb was a private property of the sacred disciple, of Joseph of Arimathea who was a rich and a influential Jew. And he had carved a big roomy tomb may be for himself for future, in which Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) was kept, the tomb or the sepulchre. And according to Jim Bishop, he says, Jim Bishop, not Bible, Jim Bishop say sit was very roomy, very big five feet wide, Seven feet in height and fifteen feet in depth. Why do you require a roomy tomb? So that if any one wants to help a person it can be done easily. These are small room in Bombay. It is approx 75 sq. feet. 75 sq. feet flat is big in Bombay. We find five-six people living in that room, in Bombay; One of the most expensive places in the world. 75 sq. feet you find 4-5 people living in it. So roomy enough, if they want to help the person why would they want to help a spiritual body? Spiritual body doesn’t require help. But natural they wanted to help a physical body. Further if you read. In the Gospel of John, Chapter No.20, Verse No.15, “Jesus he sees that Mary Magdalene, from the earth from Terra Firma not from the heaven. He sees her. And she’s weeping and he comes to her and ask, “Women why weepiest thou? Whom seekest thou?” Knowing very well, what is the reason, but yet asking? She says and supposed him to be a gardener. She asks him, “Where have you taken him?” and laid him? So that I may take him away”
I’m asking you a question, why did Mary Magdalene supposed Jesus to be(Peace Be Upon Him) a gardener? I’m asking a question; do resurrected bodies look like gardeners? Do they? Yes or no? No! So why should she suppose that Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) was a gardener? And the answer is because he was disguised as a gardener. Now, why should a spiritual body be disguised as a gardener? Jesus Christ was disguised as a gardener (Peace Be Upon Him) because he was afraid of the Jews. A spiritual body need not be afraid of the Jews, why? Because according to Hebrew, Chapter No.9, Verse No.27, “A man dies only once. And after that is the Day of Judgment.” Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) said in the Gospel of Luke, Chapter No.20, VerseNo.36, “Neither shall you die anymore”. Means if you are spiritualized you don’t have to be afraid of anyone. No one can harm you. You cannot die a second time. If he’s spiritualized why should he be disguised? Why should he be afraid? Why should he be in hiding? Why should he run away from the Jews?Proving that he was not a spiritual body, but he was alive. And he says to Mary, “Mary”, the one word is sufficient for Mary to recognize her lord and master. You know because everyone has a particular style of calling their beloved one. And the tone, in the style which you call your beloved one is sufficient to recognize who is the person. She immediately recognizes that it is Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) and she rushes forward towards him Gospel of John, Chapter No.20, Verse15-16-17. Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him)says, “Touch me not”, why? Why touch me not? Is he a bundle of electricity? That if someone touches him the person will be electrocuted? Is he a bundle of dynamite? That if someone touches they will blow up. Why does he say touch me not? Because he was a physical body, Imagine the ordeal, the pain, the physical pain, the emotional pressure that he had going through all that so called supposedly put on the cross. Put on the cross. All that pain and torture, it will hurt a physical body. He says touch me not. And then continues and says, in Gospel of John, Chapter20, Verse No.17, “I have not yet ascended unto my father” meaning what? That he has not yet been dead. Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) unequivocally says that he has not yet been resurrected, proving that he was alive. Later on it’s mentioned,
The Gospel of Mark, Chapter No.16, Verse No.11, that “The disciples they had heard that Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) was alive. From her, Mary Magdalene. But they believed not.” You know the Jews they had a habit of posing questions. Troubling the Messengers. The Qur’an says that, the Bible says that. They posed questions to Moses (Peace Be Upon Him), they troubled him and they harassed him. Same they did with Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him). Further its mentioned in the Gospel of Mathew, Chapter No.12, Verse No.38,the Jews come up to Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) and said “Master” ‘Rabbi’ meaning ‘O lord’, “why don’t you give us a sign?”, Sign meaning, a miracle, miracle. All the good works that Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) did was not sufficient to convince the Jews, they said give us a sign, give us a miracle. May be like flying in the air. Like walking on the water, like walking on burning charcoal, they wanted some miracle. Sign here doesn’t mean a sign on a lamp post, you know. Like you have signs on the roads, its not that sign. It particularly means a miracle. And if you read the New International Version, it says ‘a miraculous sign ’. What’s the reply Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) gives? What’s the reply he gives? In the next Verse,
Gospel of Mathew, Chapter No.12, Verse No.39 and 40, he says, “You evil and adulterous generation seeketh thee after a sign”, you seek for a miracle, “no sign shall be given to you, but the Sign of Jonah, for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”.
Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) doesn’t say, that see, go and meet Bartimaeus, the blind person who I gave sight. Why don’t you ask the women with issues who only on touching me she was healed. He didn’t refer to the 2000 pigs he had killed to heal a possessed man. He doesn’t say, that the 5000 and the3000 people he fed with a broiled fish and with bread. He says “no sign shall be given to you, but the Sign of Jonah”. Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) is putting all his eggs in one basket. TheSign of Jonah. And for a person to know the Sign of Jonah he doesn’t have to be a scholar of the Bible, he doesn’t have to be a doctor of divinity, because it is taught in Sunday schools and in most countries including India. Irrespective whether you are a Christian or a Muslim or a Hindu, somewhere or the other it is taught either in comics, or in moral science lessons, the Sign of Jonah or Jonah and the Whale. They know, but if you want to know the Sign of Jonah actually, in the Bible. In this big book, the Sign of Jonah is less than 2 pages. Less that one and a half page. I had the Xerox copy done from the same Bible to make it easy. Less than one and a half side. Less than one and a half side only four Chapters. And to find one page in encyclopaedia of more than a thousand pages is difficult. But everyone knows the outline of this story.
That Almighty God, He asks his messenger Jonah (Peace Be Upon Him), to go and deliver the message to the Ninevites, to go to Nineveh. But he says these Ninevites they are so sinful, what will they listen to the message. He thinks that they will make fun of me. It will be waste of time. So he goes to Joppa and from there he set sail to Tarshish. Now while he’s at sea there’s a huge storm. And it was the superstition of the marines of that time that if there’s a storm at sea it is because someone has disobeyed the master. And they had their own ways in trying to find, who was the person responsible? They had the system of casting of lots. And when they cast lots it comes to the turn of Jonah (Peace Be Upon Him). And Jonah being the messenger of Almighty God, he agrees and he says that see I’m the person responsible. I was told by my master lord to go to Nineveh but from Joppa I’m setting sail to Tarshish, running away. I’m at fault you take me and throw me over board. But they say this person, such a pious person, why should simply he be killed. So they try and steer the ship, but yet they are not successful, the storm is yet there. So he says that why don’t you throw me overboard. And finally they agree, and they throw him overboard. When they throw him overboard the storm subsides. May be it was a coincidence. Later on a big fish, a whale comes and swallow’s Jonah (Peace Be Upon Him). Jonah prays to Almighty God from the belly of the whale. The whale takes Jonah (Peace Be Upon Him) for three days and three nights, round the ocean. And then vomits him out on the sea shore. What was the Sign of Jonah, Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) says that no sign shall be given to you but the Jonah, for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Now I’d like to ask you a question.
When Jonah was thrown overboard, was he dead or alive? Before you answer, I would like to make it easy for you that see Jonah volunteers. He says I’m the culprit, I’m responsible. Throw me overboard. If someone doesn’t agree, may be we’ll have to break his leg. You may have to break his neck. You may have to twist his arm. But here he volunteers, so you don’t have to do all that. So they throw him overboard. I’m asking you a question, when Jonah was thrown overboard was he dead or was he alive? Alive!
The fish comes and swallows him was he dead or alive? Alive!
He prays to Almighty God from the belly of the whale, was he dead or alive? Do dead men pray? Was he dead or alive? Alive!
The whale takes Jonah three days and three nights in the ocean. Dead or alive? Alive!
Fish vomits him out on the sea shore was he dead or alive? Alive! Alive! Alive! Alive! Alive!
When the person is thrown overboard in the ragging sea, he ought to die, if he dies no miracle. If he’s alive it’s a miracle. Fish comes and swallows him, he ought to die. He doesn’t die, it’s a miracle. Three days and three nights, suffocation and heat, in the belly of the whale, he ought to die, he doesn’t die, it’s a miracle. It’s a miracle of a miracle of a miracle. Miracle of a miracle of a miracle. Jesus said (Peace Be Upon Him), “As Jonah was, three days and three nights, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights”. “As Jonah was, three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”. Jonah was alive. But when I posed the question to my Christian brothers and they are our brothers, they are our cousins, whatever you call, they are our brothers. When I posed the question to the Christian, that how was Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) in the tomb according to you, and all of them say that he was dead. He was dead. I’m asking you a question. Jonah was alive. Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) was dead. So was Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) alike or unlike Jonah, Like or unlike? Unlike! So Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) does not fulfil the prophecy. He puts all his egg in one basket and says no sign shall be given but the sign of Jonah. And here the prophecy is not fulfilled. For the prophecy to be fulfilled, he should be alive. As I proved in the earlier part of my talk, he was alive. Otherwise Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) will be a liar NAUZBILLAH which we cannot agree. We respect him, we revere him, so for him to fulfil the prophecy he should be alive. And Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) was alive as I proved in the earlier part of my talk. As I said that for a person to be crucified, he should be put to death on the cross. If he does not die on the cross he is not crucified. There are some people who may say, that see here the main part of the sign is not dead or alive, it’s the time factor.
Time factor. You know three days and three nights. As Jonah was in the belly of the whale so shall the son of man be three days and three nights. Three is mentioned four times. The main important emphasis is three, three, and three. It is not dead or alive. I say what is so unique about three? If I say I took three days and three nights to reach Delhi, is it a miracle? What so miracle about three? Three days or three weeks. It’s not a miracle. But they say no, it is a time factor. Let’s analyze whether Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) fulfils the time factor which the Christians, some Christians say is the main theme of the sign.
As I said earlier and we know that when we ask the Christians that when was Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) crucified? And according to the Bible, the Christians will say, on a Good Friday. So we ask him, what is so good about the Friday? They say Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) died for our sins. Therefore it’s a Good Friday. And if you read that it was the trial was in a hurry, they were hurried for the trial, they were in a hurry to put him upon the cross. They were hurried to get him down because as Pastor said no one can stay overnight hanging on the cross, on the Sabbath according to, he didn’t mention the reference, Deuteronomy Chapter No.21 Verse No.23. “The land will get cursed”. So they were in hurry to get him down. And they give the burial bath and it is by the time late in the evening. He’s put in the sepulchre late in the evening. And according to Gospel of John Chapter 20,Verse No.1, it was the first day of the week, Sunday morning that the tomb was found empty by Mary Magdalene. So supposedly Jesus was in the tomb on Friday night. Why do I say supposedly? Because the Bible does not say when does Jesus leave the tomb? May be he left on Friday late night. Or Saturday morning. It doesn’t say. Agreeing that latest he might have left is in early morning on Sunday. So Jesus was in the tomb, Friday night, supposedly. He was there in the tomb Saturday day, supposedly. He was there in the tomb Saturday night, supposedly. Sunday morning the tomb is empty. So he was there for two nights and one day. But the sign says three days and three nights…three days and three nights. As Jonah was in the belly of the whale so shall the son of man be in the heart of the earth, three days and three nights but Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) was actually one day and two nights. Is three days and three nights equal to one day and two nights? Is it equal? Three days and three nights equal, No! So even the time factor which they boast about is not fulfilled, the real thing is Jesus Christ(Peace Be Upon Him) was alive. For a person to be crucified, he should die on the cross. Just to make easy for the Pastor in the rebuttal time he hasI’ll list the major points proving that he was not crucified…
Point number One. he was not resurrected, because he was alive. If he’s alive, no crucifixion, no resurrection. He was put on the cross and bought down very fast. In three hours. In three hours it’s difficult for a person to die. Therefore Jesus was alive.
Point number two. When he’s bought down, even his two cross mates they are alive. Proving that even Jesus was alive.
Point number three his legs were not broken. What use is a broken leg to a dead man? Proving that he was alive.
Point number four: That the stone was removed and the winding sheets were unwound, proving that Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) was alive.
Point number five: That he was disguised as a gardener. Why? Because he was alive trying to be saved from the Jews.
Point number six: The tomb was roomy. It was spacious. What use is a spacious tomb for a dead person? Proving Jesus was alive.
Point number seven: That when Mary Magdalene goes to touch Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) he says touch me not. Why? He was a physical body. He was alive. It will hurt him, he was in pain. Proving that he was alive.
Point number Eight: Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) says that I have not yet ascended unto my father. That means he wasalive.
Point number nine: Mary Magdalene could not afraid recognizing Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him).
Point number ten: That in the upper room he shows his hands and feet to prove that he was not a spirit but he was alive.
Point number eleven: That they were overjoyed to see him. Why? Because they thought he’s dead and the spirit form. They were overjoyed to see because he was alive.
Point number twelve: He ate a piece of broiled fish and honey comb to prove that he was alive.
Point number thirteen: The disciples had heard from Mary Magdalene that he was alive.
Point number fourteen: The Sign of Jonah. As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth alive, alive, alive; if he’s alive, no crucifixion, no resurrection.
So in short, Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) was put on the cross according to the Bible, but he did not die. Now the topic is “Was Christ Really Crucified?” If he’s put on the cross and if he dies he’s crucified. If he’s put on the cross and does not die, what is one word that we will use? See English language is deficient. If you look up in the dictionary for a word for a person who’s put on the cross but does not die, you will not find any word. So we have to coin a new word. The best word that we can coin is that Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) was not Crucified but he was
Crucificted.
It is not
Crucifixion
.C.R.U.C.I.F.I.X.I.O.N. but it is
Crucifiction
. C.R.U.C.I.F.I.C.T.I.O.N. it’s a fiction. We have to coin a new word. So Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) was not ‘Crucifixed’ he was ‘Crucificted’. So I hope this ends the friction and the pastor will agree. And the confusion will be removed from his mind, that Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) was not crucified. There’s no crucifixion, F.I.X.I.O.N. but ‘Crucifiction’, F.I.C.T.I.O.N.
I would like to end my talk by giving the quotation of the Glorious Qur’an from Sura Al Imran, Chapter No. 3 Verse No.54 which says “wa makaru wa makaralahu walllahu khairrul makirin”
I would like to end my talk by giving the quotation of the Glorious Qur’an from Sura Al Imran, Chapter No. 3 Verse No.54 which says “wa makaru wa makaralahu walllahu khairrul makirin”
“They planed and plotted. Allah too planed, Allah is the best of planner” (Translation)
Wa Aakiru Dawana Anil Hamulillahi Rabbil Aalameen.
REBUTTAL
Dr. Mohammad Naik:
JazakAllah. Now we have the second part of the programme the rebuttal session. May I call upon Pastor Rukni to present his rebuttal for fifteen minutes? Pastor Rukni.
Pastor Ruknuddin Henry Pio:
Ok. Thank you, Dr. Zakir for you point. It is difficult to discuss it. But just a few points I am making around. I am not commenting on everything. A few points I am just bringing about because my purpose here is not to win an argument. My purpose here is to present solution for your life from sin, “Jesus the crucified”. That’s my purpose even if I lose the argument. Ok. That’s my purpose here. Alright. Now number one is: about talking about embarrassing thing in the bible is this, the bible is so faithful in the truth is like a faithful mirror. If I have ugly face, my mirror will tell me you are ugly. If I have handsome face my mirror will tell me you are handsome. Bible is like that. That’s why it represents both sides of people. It shows the sin and disgrace of people to what extent people sin against God at the same time; it shows to what extent people could be pleasing in the sight of God. That’s why the Bible is a balanced record of a human condition. He will not tell you Saint Paul; a wonderful man; never made mistake, No. He will show you false of Saint Paul. You look at other literature even Islam and other literature they make a man like God. They show him so perfect; never made a mistake; only Jesus never sinned. Ok. Shows Paul his good points he was so bad tempered; I would never want Saint Paul to be my senior Pastor. You see he had a fight with his Pastors. He had fight with Peter I think about food or something; John; right? And so many other things; Show you both sides… many other things. The servant of God Joseph in his secret life he was a practicing divination. He had a of divination. He was a wonderful servant of God but he had a weak point. He was seeking the secrets through divination. It is not true sign. Many, all so many people they have the good points, they have the bad points. The Bible shows you that no one is perfect. Shows you the good point and bad points. Jesus is the only one who never sinned against God-the father. Even that when he was a small boy he disobeyed his parents but later he followed them. He did not accompanying them as it was expected from a young boy 16 years old or 12 years old. Then when they came back and rebuked him, he followed them. He was learning; he was growing; as a man he was learning. The bible says in the book of Hebrews. He learned…he learned obedience. That means he was less and he learned that is a natural Jesus. But as far as sin he never sinned against God. Ok. So the Bible a faithful record, good and bad, you see…you want to see how man can be? read the bible. You want to see how wonderful man can be? read the bible. A criminal like Paul can be Saint Paul. God can make any one of us like that. This is a simple uneducated fisherman can be a leader of the world. Read that in the bible. You don’t need a Ph.D. you don’t need some M.Sc. You don’t some degree. You read what John did and what ordinary man without education, he lead the whole world. Ok. So in terms of looking at the Bible…Second thing the Bible is full of symbolism also many ways God talks about many things in symbolism. That’s one thing. Concerning that capital “R” and small “r” in the dictionary I have not examined that point but from Dr. Zakir’s words I get it resurrection with capital “R” is an example of resurrection and I think he misunderstood it. Resurrection is rising from the dead comma and example resurrection of Jesus from the dead capital R. That was just an example; it’s misunderstanding of the sentence. I don’t think it’s a religious point. Just example most dictionaries give you example with the word. So I don’t think its something to do with we Christian take capital R makes it resurrection of Jesus and small “r” resurrection of something else. I don’t think it’s like that, its not that way he is misunderstanding that way. Right. Now another point he says, crucifying the commandments. Paul talking particularly not the commandment itself. He is talking about what the commandment has passed judgment on me because I am a sinner that list of my judgments because of the commandments that’s the one that fell on the Jesus on the cross. It is not...not crucifying the bible or crucifying God’s word. That is meaningless; illogical…you know…The law is holy and pure. The law was meant to expose sin not to heal sin but to expose sin. But Jesus came to heal sin. Ok. So it is not crucifying the commandments to crucifying the curses and the punishment, that the commandments spell’s against me. That list, which says “I have to go to hell” you know that is the one which is crucified with Jesus. It’s the curse that was crucified. Jesus received curse on himself. Ok. About Jesus roused from the dead, the whole bible is…Dr. Zakir is saying that “No where in the Bible says, Jesus rouse from the dead.” I was so shaked to hear that. Now I would; took me just one second to locate it and my pastor located, you can read some time…something in like example Mathew 28 Verse No.6 [[[ Note: read its context as well from Matthew 28:5-9 5 The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. [ They thought Jesus son of the father (Barabbas) was crucified but instead Jesus King of the Jews was crucified who was claiming to be king of the jews.]
Revelation Chapter 1 Verse No.18 Christ through the spirit he talks about himself “I was dead now I am alive” I was dead Now I am alive there is no philosophy about it there was dead man and now he isa live man.
6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay.
7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee.There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.” [Note these are not the words of Jesus son of Mary rather some so-called angel is telling risen from dead]
8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.
9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. [Note Code 4352 mentions only ‘and worshiped’ and the 'him' is not mentioned in the verse code 4352 and is an addition out of self anxiety. Check here http://biblelexicon.org/matthew/28-9.htm ] read a little before or little after later and concerning another one is you look at
{{{{NOTE : 1) Prologue to John’s gospel i.e. John 1:1 etc.. is a later addition (Courtesy Dr. Jerald Dirks Doctor of Divinity)
2) Gospel of John scholars have long recognised that the Epilogue found in chapter 21 where Jesus had several resurrection appearances before his disciples was NOT originally part of the gospel of John but was tagged on later it wasn’t originally there this is common view among the new testament scholars throughout Europe and North America but all of our manuscripts have it so what is the original text of John with 21 or without 21 and what about the prologue of John the very famous passage john1:1 this passage from prologue of John has numerous themes found no where else in the gospel of John and the writing style is radically different from everywhere else in the gospel of John so that many scholars thought that chapter 1 to 18 were added to John before even it got published yet all the manuscripts have it so which is the original text [Debate: Dr. Bart D. Ehrman Is the Original new testament lost University of North Carolina at Chappel Hill USA Feb1, 2012] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd_dWHCpDas (Revelation 1 is also prologue of John)
Nothing… nothing playing in words or some greek word or something. Very simple. Now next thing is, talking about being confused about whether this one looks like Jesus. There is a lot of mystery about the new body God promised to those who die in Christ. And little bit reveled about it. Number 1 Jesus walked through the walls. The doors were closed and he walked through the walls. That new body is able to overcome the natural things. Number 3…that body looks like is able to hide itself. See. Jesus walked with two disciples after he roused from the dead. The eyes was prevented from recognizing him to the way of Emmaus. And then he explained to them scripture…explained to them scripture and then came to their house he broke bread then the eyes opened and they said Jesus. Not only Mary Magdalene did not recognized him there are others who did not recognize him. Till the point he wanted to reveal himself. Then they recognize him. It looks like that body had some thing very special is, it can change its form. And why did, why did Jesus show his hand. He wanted to show something special on his hand. There was a…There was a…a hole in his hand. See I am the one. Look the pierce. I am Jesus see. I am Jesus…He showed them…he showed them his side also because the soldier pierced him on his side. See I am Jesus. I am not different one. This body having the mark of the cross. The mark which I received. It looks like this body even though it’s a new body but it has resemblance of the old body. Mystery! We don’t know any thing about the new body. But we know it is supernatural body. It has a new glory it’s a greater glory. And it resemble…it is able to…to you could say that is brother Rukni. A Resurrected body…but in times you cant recognize me. I can…I can just walk through the wall…and there are marks in body and I can show you see this is my mark you remember there was mark here. See that is me Rukni. Some thing special that…that what Jesus...Jesus was trying to say that….Secondly concerning the Tomb being big. It is very clearly written in the bible that Tomb belongs to a rich man. A rich man will not go to cheap small room. He will have a nice spacious place for his full family. It’s not a question Jesus living inside the Tomb. You won’t go and live in a Tomb in a Makbarastan. That’s not a good place for him. It is very clearly writ…mentioned that the tomb was provided by a rich man. And a rich man you expect him to have a nice big tomb for his full family members. Second thing, just we will like to remind you. It was the custom from the time of Abraham to bury the dead in a cave not in the dust. In some cases people were buried in the dust. Some peoples…some time they were cremated but mostly people were put in a cave. Abraham and his wife Sara they were put in the Tomb which is a cave. It was not buried in the dust. Sothis rich man provided a stone cave fitting for a rich man big size and all that. Now you may say why the stone was open? The answer is very simple it is very clearly mentioned the Angel of the Lord removed the stone. When…one of those…I think Mary Magdalene or some other one; came a mighty Angel removed the stone and the earth shook and the two soldiers got frightened and fell down like a dead two men. And the Angels told these two women you don’t be scared it’s not meant for you to be scared. It is only for something; I am just putting my words; it is meant for this fellow to be scared not for you. I have just removed it to show you, “Look he is not in the Tomb”. See the Tomb is empty, that what it is. It the Tomb was empty. This was the purpose of removing the stone to confirm to them that his body is not inside. His body is not inside. The…the clothes fitting a grave is not fitting for him. The clothes fitting the grave…for the grave that is the white cloth they wrap the people now a days those days I don’t know; It’s not suitable for him just kept aside, folded aside. It is written folded aside. So that is concerning the tomb is big. Ok. The next point is… concerning Jonah the Prophet. Jesus said “Like Jonah was in the ….in the whale three days and so and so. Jesus did not say “I am going to be put in the whale’s mouth.” He did not say, “I am going to be in the whale’s mouth the whale will take me the three days in the sea. He did not say that. He said like his; similar to, an example of Jonah. I will also be three days. In the bottom of the earth. If you want to take literally, did Jesus go in the …in the…in the whale…mouth? No. He was in a cave in a cave which is considered to be a grave yard, Makbarastan. It was a symbolism. Just like Jonah was three days in the mouth…in the stomach of the whale. So I will be also buried in a tomb three days. Second thing it is mentioned in the bible on the third day he roused. It doesn’t specifically say 24 hours and so many minutes and so many seconds. On the third day he roused. So whether he roused one hour before or one hour…it’s not mentioned what time he roused. Just mentioned that they went early and they found already he roused. It is not specific time mentioned to him. And finally I think my time is over…Finally…I don’t need the four minutes…Just finally I want to give you one point. I just give you one point. It is written in the Bible, the privilege of seeing the miracle of Jesus rising from the dead that means seeing him after he roused; I mean the other way; is not for everybody. It’s only for those who believed; for five hundred of them; the twelve and one twenty and some…totally approximately five hundred. The whole Jewish nation because of their unbelief, unfaithfulness, rejection of God’s purposes they did not have the privilege to see Jesus rising from the dead. They did not see Jesus rising from the dead. They did not see Jesus alive after his death. So you too today don’t harden your hearts and go the way of unbelievers because God will reveal himself to you if you go the way of faith. Receive the words by faith, simple faith pure faith; receive him as a gift from God. He will reveal himself to you. If you had in your self say this comma is twisted right and that comma is twisted left and then you will end up like the Jews; be rejected. Don’t do that receive him tonight. Soften your heart…you will receive forgiveness of sin and resurrection from the dead at the appointed time. Thank you.
Dr. Mohammad Naik:
Thank you Pastor Rukni. About one minute left. May I now call upon Dr. Zakir to present his rebuttal for fifteen minutes?
Dr.Zakir Naik:
Alhamdulillah Was Salaatu Was Salaam Ala Rasoolillah WaAla Alihi Wa Ashabihi Ajma’in, amma baad. A’uzu Billahi minash shaytan nir-rajeem, Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem.Waqul jaa’al haq wa zahaqalbatil Innal batila kana zahooqa. Bismillah hirRahman nir Raheem.Rabbish rahli Şadri Wa Yassir Li 'Amri Wa Ahlul `Uqdatan Min Lisani YafqahuQawli
Respected Pastor Rukni and he said that I spoke everything illogical as though he was going to gave all the logical reply to all of them and he did touch on few of the fourteen points that I mentioned few of them. Which I will reply; InshaAllah to each and every and you be the judge who is illogical me or the Pastor. The Pastor said that the definition in the dictionary he hasn’t checked but he agrees that I have spoken the truth. The capital “R” according to the dictionary Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) was risen from the dead. For resurrection he has to rise. I don’t tell Pastor, to agree with the dictionary. Because he may not agree with the dictionary, I may not agree. But he has to agree with the bible.
Saint Paul says that, in first Corinthians Chapter No.15 Verse No. 44 that “Resurrected bodies are spiritualized.” Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) says, in the Gospel of Luke Chapter No.20 Verse No. 36 that “the resurrected bodies they are Angelised, they are spiritualized” Does he believe in Jesus or not? (Peace Be Upon Him).So according to Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) for him to be resurrected he has to be a spirit not alive body. And all the fourteen points which I mentioned proves that he was alive. He said that
nailing to the cross the law and the commandments; who said that? Paul. Not I. Paul in Colossians Chapter No.2 Verse No.14 which went against the teaching of Jesus, Gospel of Mathew Chapter No.19 Verse No.16and 17 who says, “Keep the law and the commandment”. I agree with Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) “if you want salvation keep the law and commandment”. Paul says “nail it to the cross” and Pastor said “all your good deeds are useless” if no crucifixion bible is less than two paisa. And I have proved there was no crucifixion in the bible. Jesus Christ (Peace BeUpon Him) did not die.
Point No.3 he said, “I said show me one Verse in the Gospel, where Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) is mentioned as he is resurrected”. Not a single. He quoted Gospel of Mathew Chapter 28 Verse No. 6 he said and I am reading he is not here for he is risen as he said come see the place where the lord live. He is risen it is not said he is resurrected. Risen means he is alive. I sleep and I rise. Does it mean I’m resurrected? Does it mean that? The Pastor said, “He saw a girl” according to him she was dead the doctor she says according to Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) she was healed. She comes back to life. Was she resurrected Pastor? No. She was resuscitated. Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) was not resurrected from the dead from the cross. He was resuscitated.
Point No. 4. He says “The bible says, Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) walked through the wall. No where it is mentioned in the bible, it’s an assumption. It’s an assumption. No where it is mentioned in the Gospel he worked through. It’s an assumption which we can clarify. If you know the background, which time doesn’t permits? Jesus wanted to show his hands and feet why? to show the holes, whose saying that? the Pastor not the Bible. Gospel of Luke Chapter No. 24 VerseNo.37 says that “Behold my hands and feet It is I myself see my hands and feet; it is I myself for a spirit has no flesh and bones” He doesn’t say, see the mark on hand it’s of nails. That’s what Thomas wanted. Thomas wanted to see…. In the upper room he shows to say I am not the spirit to prove what he was not resurrected.
Point No. 6. He says that the Tomb was big because it was the rich man’s tomb which I already said in my talk. It was the tomb of the rich and influential Jew, Joseph of Arimathea. I didn’t hide that.
And in his talk Pastor said and he explained very well in the talk about the original sin and he said that “every human being” and according to teachings of the church “every human being is born in sin”. Every human child has the taint of the original sin. The original sin that he described he rightly says what he described but the deduction is not logical. He said that “Adam and Eve (May Peace Be Upon them) they disobeyed God and they ate the forbidden fruit…from the forbidden tree. Therefore Almighty God He punishes them”, and he says that He removes them from paradise. Isn’t that enough?It further say, he didn’t gave the reference its
Genesis 3:16 (Chapter No.3 Verse No.16) it says that “you man you shall toil in labor and you woman you shall be the desirer of the husband. And you shall bear labor pains.” Pregnancy is the curse according to the Bible.
After that the Christians say that every child that is born from the time of Adam (Peace Be Upon them) till the last child born till the end of the end of the world is born in sin. I am asking a question when Adam (Peace Be Upon Him) ate the forbidden food did he ask me? Did he ask me before eating? No. He may have asked the Pastor. I don’t know. He didn’t asked me. If he didn’t asked me, why should I be responsible? Why? Illogical. Is God, Illogical? No.
And they have the system atonement of sin. That God send his only begotten son beloved son for sacrifice so that he can sacrifice for the sin. Lets see, what is the Bible has to say about that. They talk about atonement of sin. That Jesus Christ gave his life for the sin of humankind. And it says, and he said, and the Christian missionaries also say that you know, the sole that sinneth it shall die. It’s mentioned twice in the Old Testament Ezekiel Chapter No. 18 VerseNo.20, Ezekiel Chapter No. 18 Verse No.4“the sole that sinneth, it shall die”. But if you read Ezekiel Chapter No. 18 Verse No.20 that’s not the end of the Verse; it is only the starting of the Verse. The complete Verse is, the Christian missionary says the sole that sinneth it shall die therefore every human being is born in sin. Therefore you have to believe in the crucifixion to get salvation. The complete Verse says :
Ezekiel Chapter No. 18 Verse No.20 “the sole that sinneth it shall die but the son shall not bear the inequity of the father neither shall the father bare the inequity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him” it continues next Verse:
Chapter No. 18 Verse No.21 of Ezekiel it continue and says “but if the person turns away from the sin and he does all that is lawful and right he shall live and he shall not die”. Who says that… Bible. Old Testament Ezekiel Chapter No. 18 Verse No.20-21 “you shall not die”. If you do righteous deed you shall not die.
It is Paul who says that “if Christ is not risen from dead our preaching is vein and your faith is vein”. And I have proved that Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) was not really crucified.
And people may ask me that do Christians have one particular view only about crucifixion. It’s a misconception that all the Christians have only one view that Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) was really crucified. It a misconception.
Because there are Christians biblical scholars who say that Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) did not die on the cross.
He was put on the cross but he was bought down he was alive.
The early Basilinians they believed in that, the Carpocrates, all Christians they believed in that that Nazareth’s they believed in that, the Corinthians they believed in that. The Christians many of the sects believed that instead of Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) somebody else was put on the cross.
You see the Gospel of Barnabas Pastor may not agree with that, He was the contemporary of Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) and eye witness. He says instead of Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) Judas was put on the cross.
If you read the scrolls of Najah Hammadi, it says “Jesus Christ (Peace Be UponHim) was not crucified”. All Christians. I didn’t say these things in my talk because Pastor will say I don’t believe in the Gospel of Barnabas, I don’t believe in the scroll of Najah Hammadi. So what does he believe in? He believes in the Bible. So I have proved from the bible that Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) he was not crucified. And they say Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) he died for the sins. Willingly he gave. If you read Gospel of Mathew Chapter No.27 Verse No.46 and the Gospel of Mark Chapter No.15 Verse No.34 when Jesus was put on the cross he cried out “E’lo-i, E’lo-i, la’ma sabach-tha’ni?” “E’lo-i, E’lo-i, la’ma sabach-tha’ni?” which means “Oh God, Oh God why has thou forsaken me?” Imagine Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) willingly going on the cross and then crying on the cross “Oh God, Oh God why has thou forsaken me?” Proving that he did not willingly go on the cross why should he cry and every bible you pick up whether the English bible, whether the Hebrew, whether you pick up the Marathi Bible or the Urdu Bible. The original Hebrew statement is there “E’lo-i, E’lo-i, la’ma sabach-tha’ni?” and then the translation “Oh God, Oh God why has thou forsaken me? To prove that Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) did not willingly go on the cross.
[[[ {{{OR the obvious fact that it was Judas Iscariot on the cross who cried according to Gospel of Barnabas and scrolls of Najah Hammadi, Apocalypse (Unveiling of secrets) of Peter see details http://www.neurotherapy-of-christian-brain.blogspot.com/2012/05/jesus-crucifiction-or-release-or.html }}}
{{{OR fact that it was Simon the Sirene who ended up getting crucified according to Gospel of Mark and Luke (see here http://www.neurotherapy-of-christian-brain.blogspot.com/2012/05/jesus-crucifiction-or-release-or.html )
{{{OR every christian will agree with the simple fact ON THE VERY FACE that Jesus Barabbas (son of the father) was released. According to Gospel of Mathew and John (See here http://www.neurotherapy-of-christian-brain.blogspot.com/2012/05/jesus-crucifiction-or-release-or.html ) }}}}
Also according to John the person on the cross was Judas Son of Perdition - Last hours of Jesus' time on Earth, before he is raised to Heaven. In John 17:12 ; Jesus is saying that while he was on Earth he kept the believers (that God gave him) praising God alone, except Judas (Son of Perdition) who was crucified, because he was unfaithful to Jesus.
St. John 17: 1-15}}} ]]]
And I would like to say in the conclusion that Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) he was not Crucifixed but was Crucificted.
And I would like to give the translation of the Verse which I recited in the beginning of my talk from sura Israa Chapter 17 Verse No.81 which says, Waqul jaa’al haqqu wazahaqal batilu Innal batila kana zahooqa.
“When truth is hurled against falsehood, for falsehood parishes, falsehood is by its nature bound to parish.”(Translation)
Wa Aakhiru Da’wana Anilhamdu lillahi Rabbill Aalameen.
Note : Jesus name according to some aramaic sources was Yeshua Mashiakh / Yeshua ber Maryam. This word Yeshua is from a triliteral root word like all semetic words Yashey meaning save or to deliver however the scale ofthis name is passive its a passive participle NOT ACTIVE not savior but SAVED !!!! PASSIVE. Yeshua means the one who is saved by God!!! Indeed !!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gCiVhai5V94#!
Please read this article for details to further enlighten yourself about it http://neurotherapy-of-christian-brain.blogspot.com/2012/05/jesus-crucifiction-or-release-or.html
Please read this article for details to further enlighten yourself about it http://neurotherapy-of-christian-brain.blogspot.com/2012/05/jesus-crucifiction-or-release-or.html
More insight on the sign of Jonah
From Where the very concept of Cross sneak its way in the Bible? - Investigation
After the conversion, so-called, of Constantine the Great (B.C. 313), the cross first came into use as an emblem of Christianity. He pretended at a critical moment that he saw a flaming cross in the heavens bearing the inscription, "In hoc signo vinces", i.e., By this sign thou shalt conquer, and that on the following night Christ himself appeared and ordered him to take for his standard the sign of this cross. In this form a new standard, called the Labarum, was accordingly made, and borne by the Roman armies. It remained the standard of the Roman army till the downfall of the Western empire.
Constantine held a conference in Nicaea (325 A.D.) with 1800 priests in which Constantine accepted Jesus as a God, and killed the high priest Nostorious and Arious because they believed that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet. Constantine changed the Sabbath (day of rest) to Sunday, allowed Christians to eat pork, named the days of the week and months of the year after Roman idols, etc. Constantine mixed many atheist beliefs with the laws of Moses (pbuh). Since Contantine was a Greek pagan, he introduced this pagan concept which stems from the following: Among the Egyptians it is said to have been the symbol of divinity and eternal life, and to have been found in the temple of Serapis. It is known either in the form of the Greek cross or in the form of the letter "T". TheSpaniards found it to be well known, as a symbol, by the Mexicans and Peruvians, perhaps signifying the four elements, or the four seasons, or the four points of the compass.
Cross was known as curse and well-known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections, and occasionally in the provinces, at the arbitrary pleasure of the governors, upright and peaceable men also, and even Roman citizens themselves; Death by the cross was a punishment of the meanest slaves, and was a mark of infamy.
This symbol of cruelty and curse adopted as a standard for Roman army and crusaders, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5iyVJBRhd0&list=UU0xmLTeRaWCchgl0hRNGthQ&index=35&feature=plcp which Jesus son of Mary will break in his Second coming which is clearly prophesised here : Jesus, son of Maryam, will be a just judge and just priest (in my community), break and crush the cross [annul the worship of the cross] and kill the pig ... He will fill the world with peace like a bowl of water. There will be unity of religion, and nothing other than Allah will be worshiped. (Sunan ibn Majah, 10/334)
Why did all the pagan Greco-Roman religions suddenly disapeared after the "Christian" Councils were held and after the adoption of the Roman emperor to their Christianity ?!did the people suddenly got convinced with Christianity and forget about their gods (Zeus, Poseidon, Mithra, Heracleas...etc) and their belifs and rituals ?!
what many Christians don't know is that Christianity (which we know now) arose on the shoulder of the ancient Pagan religions when the early Roman Church adopted a vast number of Pagan rituals, festivals, and beliefs.the beliefs about the trinity, sons of gods, saviours...etc were all well-known idea in these pagan religions the Biblical (NT) was chosen by the fathers in the council from hundreds of gospels and booksall the Christian holidays were pagan holidays and they have nothing to do with Jesus or his true "religion". the Vatican temple existed even before the birth of Jesus.
The church did not adopt the cross until about the 6th century (New Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. 4, p. 475).all those who stood against these paganism were rejected, anathematized, and even assasinated. all these factors and more were the main reason why the people adopted the new religion that they created, where they found alternatives for their old beliefs .. it was the same game for them, but only different players.and that's how the Roman emperor got rid of the conflict between the new uprising teachings of the followers of Jesus and the pagan citizens of his Empire and he unified his empire again under these religions mix.and the lost key which he was looking for was the teachings of the rejected self-proclaimed apostle Paul (aka Saul of Tarsus).
Note : Prophet Muhammad had spoken the prophecy to the Muslims, who would open Constantinople first and later would open Rome. During the time prophet Muhammad (pbuh), there were two factions of Romans. One was led by the Pope who lived and rule in Rome, and the other was led by Constantinople. http://neurotherapy-of-christian-brain.blogspot.com/2012/10/prophesies-on-rome-persia-daniel-psalms.html
The Muslims (children of Kedar) fulfilled the first prophecy when sultan Mohammad Al Fateh conquered Constantinople in 1453 A.D, and changed the name of the city to Istanbul (Islamic City), Sura 21:105 finished the Roman Empire. Within 5 years, he was accepted by the Eastern European peoples in areas including Bosnia and its surroundings, fulfilling the prophecies of Muhammad (pbuh) and Psalm 120:1-7 .
Today we see Pope is still in Rome and has power and influence, the Jews consider the Roman Empires still exists; because they believe any strong Christian country or state is the continuance of the Roman Empire. This will end however when Jesus son of Mary will come in his second coming and muslims will conquer Rome as it is a promised land for muslims and indeed Jesus son of Mary will break the cross and officially declare that he was never crucified and it was a pagan symbol. Period !!!
Further insight on this subject :
Analysis in which Quran and Bible agrees that Jesus son of the father was not crucified. Highly recommended the best one.!!!
http://neurotherapy-of-christian-brain.blogspot.com/2012/05/crucifixion-question-of-identity.html
(Dr. Jerald Dirks Doctor of Divinity from Harvard Divinity School) Very scholarly article obviously.
(Dr. Jerald Dirks Doctor of Divinity from Harvard Divinity School) Very scholarly article obviously.
http://neurotherapy-of-christian-brain.blogspot.com/2012/10/crucifixion-or-cruci-fiction_20.html
(Ahmad Deedat - Each and every single step analysis with full details) dont miss!!!
(Ahmad Deedat - Each and every single step analysis with full details) dont miss!!!
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete